Thanks for your help Andy, I know you're very busy.
I seem to be dense... here is a screenshot of what I'm working on, with the two screens the TCE and the Main view and you can see I have the vertexs selected.
http://www.bringnthepain.com/odd_uvw_angle_004.jpg
when I rotate it just spins around though. and if I pull individual vertexes it skews the surface.
I'm not building something that already has a picture, I'm texturing what I built in 3d and just painting the surfaces of what is there.
this and the gas cap and the camera are all I have left to map... your program has slammed out all the other maps I've been working on for months in Max... in just a few days. thanks!!!