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Old 24th February 2011, 12:13 AM   #1
Edymnion
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Default Apply Textures After Subdivision Preview is Calculated

One I only just now found.

Working on making an anime head and was messing around with just the eyes at the moment, trying to make them large enough. As usual, I'm working with a level or two of subdivision on a fairly simple underlying mesh.

And, well, it'll be easier to just show you.

On the left is the un-subdivided eye. Note the texture has nice round glare in the center of the eye. On the right is the same mesh with the subdivision set to 2. Notice how the nice oval glare has become pinched and spikey.

What it appears to me to be happening is that the program is applying the texture to the mesh, then subdividing while trying to keep the texture in the same relative position. But since the vertexes are moving, its distorting the texture in the preview.

Granted, its not an issue if you commit the subdivision and then remap the texture, but would it be too much processor overhead to have the texture mapper take subdivisions into account before overlaying the skin?
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Old 24th February 2011, 12:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Apply Textures After Subdivision Preview is Calculated

If you were to open the TCE (F10) before and after subdividing, you'd see that the assignments don't change between operations. So, if you subdivide, it's altogether possible to get distortion.

Moral of the story: do your subdivisions long before you do any texturing. Texturing should be saved for late in the game, when you've done most, if not all of your modeling. (or, if you absolutely have to have some visual reference, be satisfied with rough, approximate textures until you get to that later point of refinement, and then RE-texture everything.)
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Old 2nd March 2011, 11:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Apply Textures After Subdivision Preview is Calculated

Personal preference, I'd like to see textures rendered after subdivisions are calculated, not before. The ability to apply a texture on the fly to see how it looks is one of the strengths of AC3D. We lose that strength while using subdivisions because of distortion. If I want to apply my texture while I'm working to see if it fits, I would like to be able to do that without having to first save my model, commit subdivision, reapply the texture, check it, revert back to pre-committed model, and try and remember what needed adjusting.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 11:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Apply Textures After Subdivision Preview is Calculated

Well, it may be a personal preference to do it one way, but you still have to deal with things as they are. And, every time you remap an object in the TCE, you get results based on whatever level of subdivision you have going at the time. That only makes logical sense. You can't expect the TCE to show you levels of subdivision you haven't committed to, or haven't performed, can you?

What you can try is, if it's only a certain area that's important, just select those surfaces and remap them from the desired angle. Still, this is going to create distortion because you're not going to get "agreement" on where vertices and surfaces meet. But, if the distortion is minor, you can always (painstakingly) work within the TCE to "snap together" vertices and restore visual order that way. Try it, it might work for you. However, it's never going to be preferable to just committing to a final remapping whenever you have to.

Also, your idea of saving various versions of your model is a GREAT idea. File sizes for AC3D files are small, so it's no skin off your nose to have five or six versions of a working model. When I use AC3D to build aircraft, I save a "bookmark" model at each important stage once I'm satisfied with it. So, I'll save a "fuselage" version, a "wings" version, a version with "wheel wells and landing gear cut out", etc. So, if I get further down the road and figure I've totally blown it past a certain point, I can always revert to that earlier version and just start from that interim point, hopefully applying any lessons I've just learned from my recent mistakes. Better to have to redo a major process with new knowledge than to go through the hassle of trying to fix something you've irrevocably "fubared". Or, to have to totally start over from scratch!

One thing you said in your post is important: "seeing textures on the fly". It's true that it's a good thing to be able to get a rough idea of how a texture will or won't work as you model... but, if you have an expectation that what you're seeing is a "rough idea" and won't be a finished process until you actually finish all your subdividing and mesh editing... well, then this all works properly. Said another way, realize that until you commit to your final mesh, you won't be able to commit to a final texture mapping either.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 04:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: Apply Textures After Subdivision Preview is Calculated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiglr View Post
Well, it may be a personal preference to do it one way, but you still have to deal with things as they are.
This is not an appropriate comment for this forum.

This is the Suggestions forum. It's explicit purpose is to accept user feedback on features and/or abilities they would like to see added to AC3D, or changes to existing features already in place.

You do not have to agree that a request be sensible or a priority, but you do need to respect the right of other posters to use this forum for it's intended purpose.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 04:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Apply Textures After Subdivision Preview is Calculated

The situation here is that that the texture coordinates are associated with the vertices of the top level (non-subdivded) object. When a subdivision happens, new vertices are created and positioned to form the new subdivision shape. The texture coordinates for the new shape are interpolated from the original vertices and, as you've discovered, they may not be exactly where you want them due to the nature of subdivisions distorting the new shape.

It's not a bug, AC3D does its best to create 'virtual' texture coordintes. I don't know of a way to improve this (there may be one I'm not aware of any) so it's best to use the interpolated texturing as a guide until you are ready to commit the subdivision and adjust the textures.

Please do keep the suggestions coming. They are looked at and many do get implemented.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 05:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Apply Textures After Subdivision Preview is Calculated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edymnion View Post
This is not an appropriate comment for this forum.

This is the Suggestions forum. It's explicit purpose is to accept user feedback on features and/or abilities they would like to see added to AC3D, or changes to existing features already in place.

You do not have to agree that a request be sensible or a priority, but you do need to respect the right of other posters to use this forum for it's intended purpose.
Point taken. I had forgotten this was in the Suggestions area, and was trying to treat it as a "question" instead. My bad....
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