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Old 28th December 2010, 02:35 PM   #1
CharlieCD
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Default Pivoting FlyingFlea Wing

Hello All,
new to the forum yet have been using AC3D for a few years now to model aircraft for Ilan Papini´s Flight Simulator and also for his Vehicle Simulator, both of which accept exported X files. ( http://www.hangsim.com/ )

While trying to model a Mignet Pou du Ciel (Flying Flea), which basically is a two axis control tandem wing:
Front main wing has no ailerons and is able to pivot around its longeron...gains altitude with a greater angle of attack (increased lift), and loses altitude with a smaller angle of attack (decreased lift).
Rear secondary wing (which also contributes to lift) is fixed to the fuselage.
Directional control is obtained by a rather large rudder that combined with wing dihedral, also induces the craft to roll in or out of a turn.

When I name the wing as a “wing” it becomes a fixed wing on the simulator.
So, instead I named it “elevator” which gives me the correct action on the simulator, yet visually it rotates in the opposite direction (clockwise when it should be anticlockwise), spoiling the realism of the model.
I have consulted the hangsim forums that have come up with the following solutions:

First I consulted the designer who answered:

Yes, there is a way to invert the elevator movement, but this requires to change the 3D model of the plane, and set the
x axis to point to -x ( rotate a 180 deg around the Z axis ).

And from the forum:

In your 3D program or in Deep Exploration for instance, take the Z axis of your model and then rotate it of 180° (around the Z axis of course), then the x coordonates become the -x ones since the X axis will then be inverted, like Ilan said.

And also:

Hi CharlieDC, on a elevator we put the X,Y,Z right at the front where
The moving part meets the non moving part.
On my canard I put the X,Y,Z right in the center of the canard but the
Part name is still elevator ( l or r ) so the game looks at it like a elevator.



Yet, having tried the above which did not solve the problem, plus many other combinations such as flipping the model around the Y axis, which did the trick, yet the model ends up flying backwards!

So, my question is, is it possible with AC3D?
If so, please, how do I do it?

Thank you kindly for any help you would like to give me,
Charlie
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Old 28th December 2010, 02:54 PM   #2
CharlieCD
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Default Re: Pivoting FlyingFlea Wing

I just received this one from the VS forum and wonder if it gives any clues to a solution?

Charlie,
I use AC3d myself. (love it)!
As far as I can tell it is the program that is causing you this grief.

I have not been able to overcome this yet.
It has to do with object centers and world origin reference.

My most recent effort was the opening bonnet on the 65 JAG.
I won't even tell you the hours spent trying to figure it out. Never did find a solution within AC3d.

I have played briefly with the suggestion below and had no Joy.
http://www.inivis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5896

I just wish we had up/down beta/gama parameters for foils, doors etc. That would pretty much solve all of my problems.

I have also tried putting the model into Gmax, but of course all textures get lost.
And I am not at all familiar with the program.

If you do find a solution to this within the program please post it for us.
This is the only thing I have found with AC3d that holds me back.
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Old 29th December 2010, 05:54 PM   #3
CharlieCD
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Default Re: Pivoting FlyingFlea Wing

No suggestions??
Not possible in AC3D?

Charlie
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Old 30th December 2010, 09:30 AM   #4
CharlieCD
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Default Re: Pivoting FlyingFlea Wing

Hello,
rather feeling let down by the lack of response of this forum, I found the solution to my problem by using Deep Exploration 5 that also allows importing X files.

Additional to the Rotate command, they also have a Rotate Pivot Point tool, which immediately solved my problem.

Charlie
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Old 2nd February 2011, 03:38 PM   #5
Sharpy
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Default Re: Pivoting FlyingFlea Wing

Aloha Charlie,
I can't afford Deep Exploration 5 just to make a pivot point for Ilan's sim.
I had the trial for 5.7, looked fantastic!

So I'm still frustrated, and still have not found a solution.
Other than to send the vehicle file to a friend and have him change the pivot point.

Frustrating!!

Good to see you over here, I've read and responded to your post on VS Forum.
Although I was of no help!

Steve
(Sharpy)
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Old 2nd February 2011, 04:24 PM   #6
CharlieCD
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Default Re: Pivoting FlyingFlea Wing

Steve,
mine is also the trial version yet, it is more than 30 days old and still happily working!
It has given me the chance to convert all my Flea models and to make a couple of dummies for future models.
I still believe that AC3D should have a solution to rotating pivot points.

Thanks and cheers,
Charlie
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Old 19th April 2012, 12:18 PM   #7
CharlieCD
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Default Re: Pivoting FlyingFlea Wing

Hello Steve,
finally I found a good oldtime hacker solution to inverting the pivot point that does not require any external program.

I simply allow AC3D to export the Xfile with its own pivot (which is reversed for my model)
Then I open the Xfile and search for the culprit Frame by name, such as:

Frame lelevatorr {

FrameTransformMatrix {
1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0,
0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0,
0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0,
0.046473, 0.150234, - 0.073243, 1.0;; (after a little testing, I removed the red minus sign)
}

To reverse the flap action:

Frame flapl {

FrameTransformMatrix {
1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0,
0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0, (after a little testing, I added the red minus sign)
0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0,
-0.371188, -0.474202, -1.76434, 1.0;;
}

This has worked beautifully for me and maybe it will do so for your Jag bonnet.

Cheers,
Charlie
PS: I have tried fiddling with the Object Property Editor but without any luck, so far...still have to sort that one out !
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