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Old 30th October 2006, 05:28 PM   #1
CGMike
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Default double/triple faces?

Hello..

Posting here with a question about something I notice happening rather often in AC3D and I can't figure out the cause.

Say I am creating a model - in this case, it would be a segment of a corridor - assume it's for a dungeon. I've deleted all the faces at both ends - say along +/- X for the sake of example.

I want to create an extension to the area to work some more detail into, and so I select all the veritices on one side of the model where I've deleted the faces and then press Ctrl+E to extrude edges. It works fine. However... I find that at a later time, certain functions are acting funny and things don't work quite as I'd expect.

I come to find out that where I extruded the edges there are actually 2, and on a couple occasions 3 faces occupying the same space. I only extruded once, so why is it creating duplicate faces in this manner?

It doesn't happen all the time and is very hit-or-miss. I can see nothing different in what I'm doing one time over another so I couldn't even tell you what I might be doing differently.

Is this just a common glitch with AC3D?

And, on a related note, sometimes if I select two vertices at opposite ends of an edge (ie. basically binding the edge between them) and press CTRL+E, again, to extrude out a new surface from it, it tells me that it cannot perform that function because there is no valid edge - something to that effect. Now, there *is* a polygon in place which the edge I should be extruding is part of. How can there be a polygon there, but no edge?

Again, it's a rather strange behavior.

Any help on either of these?

Thanks :-)
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Old 3rd November 2006, 11:35 AM   #2
CGMike
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Default Re: double/triple faces?

Hmm...

No one knows a reason for this? Or... has no one else experienced it?

Here's a screenshot of exactly what I'm talking about; it just happened moments ago:

To explain what I did to get this... I started with a simple, flat plane. I then went into Vertex mode, selected two vertices sharing an edge (on the X axis) and pressed Ctrl+E. I proceeded to extrude out new faces in this manner to what you see below. However, as soon as I started moving vertices around, you'll notice the ones I have selected:
A: Were not "merged" during the extrusion so there were two vertices sharing the same space... leading me to believe that it created two different objects.. *until* I view it in 3D mode and move the other vertex revealing...
B: there is an errant face connecting the vertices that were sharing the same space. Again.. AC3D is creating extra faces at random while doing extrusions. I'm not making any mistakes here. I press Ctrl+E, and extrude the new face.. Press Ctrl+E and extrude the new face... It works fine most of the time, but at random I get what you see below. What is causing this?



Thanks

Last edited by CGMike; 3rd November 2006 at 11:49 AM. Reason: To add a screenshot sample
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Old 3rd November 2006, 04:23 PM   #3
luuckyy
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Default Re: double/triple faces?

Hi CGMike,
this is a problem I've never experienced myself as far as I can remember.
I don't really understand what were you first modeling steps with the geometry displayed on the pictures ... a polyline (with inserted vertices) extruded on -Z ?
Just a thought, have you tried extruding edges by only using the menu (vertex/extrude edges) and not the CTRL+E keys on your keyboard (just in case you could be pushing CTRL+E more than one time sometimes) ?
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Old 4th November 2006, 05:21 PM   #4
CGMike
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Default Re: double/triple faces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by luuckyy View Post
Hi CGMike,
this is a problem I've never experienced myself as far as I can remember.
I don't really understand what were you first modeling steps with the geometry displayed on the pictures ... a polyline (with inserted vertices) extruded on -Z ?
Just a thought, have you tried extruding edges by only using the menu (vertex/extrude edges) and not the CTRL+E keys on your keyboard (just in case you could be pushing CTRL+E more than one time sometimes) ?
I started with a single, un-subdivided plane. I then started by selecting two vertices to effectively select an "edge" and press Ctrl+E to extrude it.

I'm not pressing more than once. While doing testing of it I made sure I was not pressing more than once. So that's not it. Like I said, it happens randomly, I can go for 10 minutes without a single incident.. sometimes it happens 2 or 3 times within a few minutes... it's very random.
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Old 5th November 2006, 12:13 AM   #5
Dennis
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Default Re: double/triple faces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMike View Post
I'm not pressing more than once. While doing testing of it I made sure I was not pressing more than once. So that's not it. Like I said, it happens randomly, I can go for 10 minutes without a single incident.. sometimes it happens 2 or 3 times within a few minutes... it's very random.
Like luuckyy, I haven't seen this problem during my own modeling. I think it would still be good to try the menu command as luuckyy suggests --- if it can be reproduced from the menu without pressing the hotkey, that would tell us whether it was a keyboard issue or not. Not just a question of whether you're hitting the Ctrl+E more than once, but perhaps the key is "sticking" and getting read more than once.

Using the menu can be tedious, of course, but another option is to add Extrude Edges to the toolbar using the toolbar editor ( http://www.ac3d.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3688 ). Again, just to see whether it is keyboard related.

Another option if you do not want to install the toolbar editor is to use the attached tcl file. Drop this into the "scripts" folder under your AC3D installation folder and restart AC3D, and you will get a new "Extrude Edges..." menu item under the Tools menu. Issuing this will bring up a stay-on-top window with an "Extrude edges" button so you don't have to use the menu every time. Simply delete the file when you don't want the command present any more.

Since keyboards can have problem keys that temporarily "stick" for a second or two after being released, this may be the cause of the problem you're seeing. Being able to eliminate/confirm whether this is an issue may lead toward solving the problem.

Good luck
Attached Files
File Type: tcl extedge.tcl (792 Bytes, 213 views)
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Old 5th November 2006, 04:04 PM   #6
CGMike
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Default Re: double/triple faces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Like luuckyy, I haven't seen this problem during my own modeling. I think it would still be good to try the menu command as luuckyy suggests --- if it can be reproduced from the menu without pressing the hotkey, that would tell us whether it was a keyboard issue or not. Not just a question of whether you're hitting the Ctrl+E more than once, but perhaps the key is "sticking" and getting read more than once.

Using the menu can be tedious, of course, but another option is to add Extrude Edges to the toolbar using the toolbar editor ( http://www.ac3d.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3688 ). Again, just to see whether it is keyboard related.

Another option if you do not want to install the toolbar editor is to use the attached tcl file. Drop this into the "scripts" folder under your AC3D installation folder and restart AC3D, and you will get a new "Extrude Edges..." menu item under the Tools menu. Issuing this will bring up a stay-on-top window with an "Extrude edges" button so you don't have to use the menu every time. Simply delete the file when you don't want the command present any more.

Since keyboards can have problem keys that temporarily "stick" for a second or two after being released, this may be the cause of the problem you're seeing. Being able to eliminate/confirm whether this is an issue may lead toward solving the problem.

Good luck
Hmm.. I'll give that a try, though it happens to me whether I'm working on my home keyboard or at work on my work keyboard.. the likelihood of the same exact key sticking in two different places seems a bit remote to me. If I have to press a button or use a menu command every time, it really defeats the purpose of having a shortcut key in the first place.

Can I reassign the shortcut key to something different?
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Old 5th November 2006, 05:29 PM   #7
Dennis
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Default Re: double/triple faces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMike View Post
Hmm.. I'll give that a try, though it happens to me whether I'm working on my home keyboard or at work on my work keyboard.. the likelihood of the same exact key sticking in two different places seems a bit remote to me.
It does seem very unlikely. AC3D must be getting the direction to perform the extrusion twice from somewhere, however.

I don't believe it's possible to have the edge extrusion happen twice without two extrusion commands being sent to AC3D (via keyboard/menu/button), but only Andy/Inivis could verify this. As before, however, if you can repeat it via button/menu rather than keyboard, that would certainly give them something to look at.

I find I *can* reproduce this by holding down the "E" key just a tad longer than normal (my keyboard repeat rate is set to the shortest delay possible). If I turn down the key repeat rate to Long, it ceases to happen, of course.

Good luck
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