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Old 11th July 2007, 01:11 AM   #1
Wiggles
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Default Lamp wip

D'oh!

I'm working on modeling my lamp, I was pretty much done with the model, I just needed to add some kind of material or texture to it, was about to save it, and some popup came up saying the program had to terminate.

I'll post a picture when I can get it back up.

Anybody know what those popups are? I've gotten a few of them during my trial. I think it said something about an access violation.

Last edited by Wiggles; 11th July 2007 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 11th July 2007, 09:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Lamp wip

Here's my lamp.




Having trouble though. I thought the knife function was supposed to be able to make a hole regardless if the 2nd object is connected, because its telling me it can't do that.

I'm trying to make a whole where that switch sticks out. its actually more of a slot.

Also, there are these silver bands that section off the shaft. I was wondering how i could include those in there.

There is a bumpy type texture on the switch to allow for grip. If you guys have turn style switches on any of your lights, you'll know what i'm talking about. How can I incorporate this on the switch?

Last edited by Wiggles; 11th July 2007 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 12th July 2007, 12:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lamp wip

I'm trying to make a hole where the switch is and it's not cooperating

I modeled the shape of the hole, then put where I need it.




This is what happens when I try to cut the hole out




I also have a problem with AC3D crashing on me
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Old 12th July 2007, 03:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lamp wip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggles View Post
Having trouble though. I thought the knife function was supposed to be able to make a hole regardless if the 2nd object is connected, because its telling me it can't do that.
Looking very good, Wiggles!

For the knife function, it doesn't need to be connected, it needs to be "closed". ie. convex. Try temporarily closing off any openings and see if that works better for 'ya.

For the kind of hole you're trying to make, though, you're probably better to delete the faces around the hole, then select the vertices and create two ordered surfaces, one on each side of the hole. The boolean routines are handy, but they don't always leave a clean mesh... especially when the cut-out is close to the edge of a poly.

For the silver bands, there are a number of ways to accomplish it. The best answer depends on what you're planning to use the model for. Since I know you're learning--and hopefully this will be useful to other people, too--I'll outline several methods and the pros and cons of each:

1) Create another cylinder that overlaps the first. This is by far the easiest method. If you plan to raytrace your model with a high-precision tracer, this works fine but don't use this for real-time or polygon rendered model. It will nearly always result in z-fighting\flimmering. If you create a second cylinder and don't overlap the first, you won't get z-fighting, but you will get sparkling along the seam. Sparkling will happen regardless of whether it's real-time or raytraced in this circumstance. For distance shots, you likely won't notice, but for close-ups it could be a problem.

2) Using the built-in tools, select the faces adjoining where you want the band. Select Vertex > Insert Vertex to create a new row of vertices. Select the vertices you just created. Next, click Vertex > Slice Surface to create the band. This method will create clean geometry that's good for both high-poly and real-time models, but it's a time-consuming way to do it if you have a lot of faces.

3) Go to Dennis's site at http://www.supercoldmilk.com and download the "Divide Loop" plug-in. Select the faces adjoining where you want the band, and click Tools > Divide Loop. Select the newly created vertices, and move them down to narrow the band to the desired thickness. Optionally, you can select Surface > Cut Away Object to make the band it's own object. This is an extremely fast and easy way to do this, and creates clean geometry.

4) Dennis also offers an alternate version of the Knife tool that operates a little differently than the built-in knife. Most importantly, it does not require convex shapes, so it works extremely well as a slicing plane. To use this method: download the alternate knife tool. Create a plane in the top view, and move it down to wherever you want the band to be cut. From the Tools menu, select Knife. Set the plane as the knife, and your cylinder as the object to cut, then cut the shape. This is also a very fast and easy way to do this, that creates very clean geometry.

5) Don't model it at all, just texture it in. This method is extremely common on real-time models for video games. If your engine supports normal or bump mapping as well as specular mapping, you won't be able to tell it's not geometry. Seriously.

6) This is the most complex method, but will create the most detailed result. If your cylinder is not capped already, cap it by selecting the vertices along the end and clicking Vertex > Create 2D Mesh > Plan. Select the surfaces of the end cap. Switch to extrude mode, and extrude the surfaces. You can stop here if you just want a simple band, but if you want more detail, do the following: With the surfaces still highlighted, hold the control key and uniform scale them down slightly. Switch to vertex mode, and highlight both the new vertices and the original vertices along the edge. Scale on the y axis to flatten them. You should now have a ring with a smaller circle of faces inside. Switch back to surface mode, and select the circle in the center. Extrude again. Extrude a third time. Unform scale the vertices to the original diameter. Delete the surfaces, leaving just the vertices. You should have a cone-shaped thing on the end of your cylinder. Switch back to vertex mode, and flatten the third set of vertices to the top of the narrow extrusion, again by scaling on the y axis. Switch back to surface mode. Now, select the outer ring of surfaces and extrude again. You should now have a band with a small lip dividing it from the main cylinder. I know this explanation is long, but with practice this can be accomplished in only a few seconds.

So what's the "best" answer? Again, a lot of it depends on personal preference and what you're planning to use the model for, but of the methods I listed here are my favorites:

For real-time models that support normal and specular mapping, method #5 is unquestionably the way to go.

For real-time models that do not support normal and specular mapping, but do allow different materials per object, I would use method #3.

For high-poly models, especially those in close-up shots, method #6 has the most detail.
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Old 12th July 2007, 05:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lamp wip

oh wow, thanks

I'll probably try a few of those. I may model them in and do a textured version just so I can learn how to do it.

The bands are shiny silver pieces that are where parts of the pole screw together.


This is what happened when I tried to select the vertices and create and ordered surface.




I found a problem with my model The edges don't match on these two pieces, is there any way to fix this?

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Old 12th July 2007, 09:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lamp wip

Ah. You need to select your vertices in either clockwise or counter-clockwise order when you are choosing them to make an ordered surface. Which order you select them in will determine which way the surface normal faces. If you don't select them in a circular fashion, you'll get a face like the one in your screen shot.

As far as fixing the t-junction, select the two vertices along the edge of the lower face, then click Vertex > Insert Vertex. Then snap the new vertex and the one at the end of the t-junction together and optimize vertices. That should fix it.
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Old 12th July 2007, 11:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lamp wip

I tried the insert vertex thing, but it said that it couldn't find any edges. The problem is I didn't create the same amount of segments as the pole. Can I fix this, or am I going to have to redo it?




I also want to thank you, you've been a lot of help



Edit: Thanks, that ordered surface thing, worked
Why are the surfaces shaded different than the rest of the object though.


Last edited by Wiggles; 12th July 2007 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 13th July 2007, 12:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Lamp wip

Anytime! I'm always happy to lend a hand.

Try the vertex insert thing again, but make sure you have the right vertices selected. Sometimes when two faces are really close together, it's almost impossible to tell which vertices you have selected. One trick when that happens is to switch to surface mode, select the surface you want the edges for, then switch back to vertex mode and de-select the vertices you don't want leaving just the ones you do. That way, you know you have both vertices from the same face.

The surfaces are most likely shaded differently because either your normals are flipped or the vertices are in a different winding order. (These two things are related.) You can toggle display of normals with the 'n' key, or from the 3d window menu. Normals can be flipped by selecting Surface > Flip Normal, and winding order can be changed with Surface > Change Vertex Order. If your surface has more than four vertices, you might need to change the order several times until you get it the right direction. I usually just hold down the shortcut key, Crtl+Shift+O, until it looks right.

Be sure to post some pictures when you have your lamp textured. :-)
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Old 13th July 2007, 03:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Lamp wip

thanks, i selected the surfaces, then hit the vertex button, deselected the other vertices and was able to create a new vertice.

Is there a way to get one of the vertice's to go to the other, so they both don't move, i have to move the vertice as close as I can before I snap them together.


The problem with the surfaces not being shaded right are because i guess it had too many left over vertices, so I just welded them together and came out with this. It's a little bumpy for some reason.





What are the steps needed to texture it? I'm going to do that first. I did that tutorial with the textured car, but I don't have a texture map like that. I'm lost as to how to start. If texturing it, will I still need to change the materials?
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Old 13th July 2007, 07:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Lamp wip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggles View Post
Is there a way to get one of the vertice's to go to the other, so they both don't move, i have to move the vertice as close as I can before I snap them together.
Sure thing! Select the destination vertex by itself. Next to the "Move To" panel on the left is a small button with an arrow on it. Click the arrow, and it will store the position of the currently selected object. Then, select the vertex you want to move and click the Move To button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggles View Post
If texturing it, will I still need to change the materials?
It's not strictly necessary, but I'd still recommend it. Many people think of materials as a way to set the color of an object, but that’s not really what they’re for. In actuality, materials control how light reflects. Changing settings like shininess or specularity can cause a *big* difference in the way an object appears, even with the same texture map applied. Large highlights, for example, indicate a very rough surface; while small, sharp highlights indicate a surface that is very smooth and hard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggles View Post
What are the steps needed to texture it?
Texturing can be an art unto itself, but I can give you a few pointers to get you moving in the right direction. :-)

The first thing you need to do is layout the UV (texture) coordinates. Some people do like the tutorial video and create the texture first, but I always layout the pieces first and then paint after I have the layout.

Laying out the UVs is sort of like playing Tetris with your model. You need to select each part of your model a section at a time, apply a projection to it, and then scoot all of the mapped areas around until they all fit inside the square in the texture coordinate editor. You can also think of it like gift wrapping... the goal is to have a bit of gift paper, or texture space, evenly placed over all areas of the model.

To do this, switch to surface mode and select an area of your model... something you think you might paint as all one piece. Try to avoid discontinuities, such as faces on opposite sides of a hard corner; make these into two different map sections instead. For example, if I were texturing a turtle I might make the top of the shell one piece, the bottom of the shell another piece, and each foot and the head their own pieces as well. If I were texturing a bowl, I might make the inside of the bowl and the outside of the bowl their own sections.

After you select some faces, you need to apply a mapping to them. Basic planar mapping, which you will use a lot, can be done directly in the texture coordinate editor. Just open the texture coordinate editor with your surfaces selected, then click Remap > [Front\Right\Top\etc.] based on which direction your surfaces are facing. I’d also recommend check-boxing “Keep size ratio” as this will keep your textures from distorting. For organic shapes, this isn’t as important, but for objects like vehicles where you might want to include text, this will save a lot of headaches. So, for example, if I were texturing the turtle’s shell, I would select the faces on the back of the turtle’s shell, open the texture coordinate editor, and click Remap > Top. You should then see the faces appear in the texture coordinate editor drawn from the direction you specified.

After you’ve mapped the shape, in the texture coordinate editor move the mapped section somewhere off to the side of the map to make room for the next section. Try to move each part someplace where it won’t be on top of something else, because that will make it a pain later. Deselect the faces and go on to the next section. Keep repeating this until you’ve mapped every surface in your model.

Planar mapped surfaces are (usually) easiest to paint, but some areas of your model won’t always play nice with planar mapping. To use a different mapping mode, you’ll need to use the UV Map tool. You’ll find this on the tools menu.

The UV Map tool works basically the same way as Remap in the texture coordinate editor, but it allows you to do other types of projections. For example, unlike a planar mapped projection which is like taking a picture from a particular angle, a cylindrical projection is like wrapping a cylinder around the object. Cylindrical mapping is really useful for things like human heads, where the surfaces are all pointing in different directions, but you still want to paint the whole thing as one continuous object to avoid seams. Another useful projection is spherical mapping, which is like cylindrical mapping but uses a sphere shape instead. Spherical mapping is great for making things like sky domes. Try experimenting with the different mapping modes to see what they do; you can see your results in the texture coordinate editor.

After you’ve mapped all the parts, now it’s Tetris time. Select the entire object and open the texture coordinate editor. Select each part in the texture coordinate editor, and slide it inside the square. You may need to scale or rotate parts in the texture coordinate editor to make them all fit on the map. Don’t worry if the size of the parts on the map isn’t proportional to the size of the parts on the model. Scale them instead based on how important or detailed the parts are. For example, professional character modelers usually devote a disproportional area of the texture map to the character’s head and hands because these are most important. The bottom of the character’s feet will take up only a tiny portion of the map, because they’ll almost never be seen.

After you have everything in the square, you’re ready to paint! From the Window menu in the texture coordinate editor, select Copy Image to Windows Clipboard. (Uh... if you’re not on Windows, I assume there’s a similar menu. If not, there’s a plug-in that will allow you to export the UVs to a bitmap.) Paste into your favorite paint program, crop to the square, and paint away. :-)

When you’re done painting, you can apply the finished image to your model by selecting Object > Texture > Load Texture. Don’t forget to set your material color to white first so that you can see your texture.

Hope that helps!
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