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Old 16th March 2009, 09:12 AM   #1
SebastianG63
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Question Request: Export-Plugin / SL Sculpties resolution greater than 64x64

The actual resolution from what an export into sculpted prims TGA files is right now always 64x64 with AC3D 6.4 as it seems. At this resolution artefacts are expected from http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Scul...al_Explanation citing :

Quote:
Warning: Textures are stored using lossy JPEG2000 compression. If the texture is sized 64x64 or below the compression artifacts are numerous and very bad, once you take 128x128 they are still there but greatly diminish. Therefore for now 128x128 will give you much better results even though this is a serious memory waste. Note that going beyond 128x128 will give you little benefit so please don't!
This article was from 2006 and is kind of outdated at the point about optimal resolution of 128*128. Actually with the current version Sculpties at great detail are used along with textures up to 512*512 or even 1024*1024 making the form of a sculpted prim, but most commonly used might be a resolution of 256*256.

I think the resolution should be an option what resolution one wnats to use when using the exporter plugin for sculpted prims, since 64*64 pixel maps look really bad actually in SL, not matter how much effort one has taken crating a modell in AC3D.

Please make a change to the plugin to allow different resolutions from 64*64 to make AC3D competitive with other tools creating sculpted prims for SL.

Thank you!
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Old 30th March 2009, 11:11 PM   #2
bcRIPster
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Default Re: Request: Export-Plugin / SL Sculpties resolution greater than 64x64

Quote:
Originally Posted by SebastianG63 View Post
The actual resolution from what an export into sculpted prims TGA files is right now always 64x64 with AC3D 6.4 as it seems. At this resolution artefacts are expected from http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Scul...al_Explanation citing :


This article was from 2006 and is kind of outdated at the point about optimal resolution of 128*128. Actually with the current version Sculpties at great detail are used along with textures up to 512*512 or even 1024*1024 making the form of a sculpted prim, but most commonly used might be a resolution of 256*256.

I think the resolution should be an option what resolution one wnats to use when using the exporter plugin for sculpted prims, since 64*64 pixel maps look really bad actually in SL, not matter how much effort one has taken crating a modell in AC3D.

Please make a change to the plugin to allow different resolutions from 64*64 to make AC3D competitive with other tools creating sculpted prims for SL.

Thank you!
1) checkbox the lossless button when you save and there will be no compression. Doh!

2) the artifacts have nothing to do with the size of the image, each color channel is stored as an 8-bit value instead of 32-bit.

3) contrary to you're interpretation above, the actual resolution for sculpties is 64x64.

4) you might want to consider reading the whole article that you posted your link to before using as a reference in making demands:
Quote:
Warning: As of 1.20.14, 32x32, 64x64 and 128x128 textures are stored lossless JPEG2000 compression if you check the lossless compression box in the upload window. If the texture is sized outside this compression artifacts exist and can corrupt your shape ruining any attempt at photo realistic texturing. Also the assert server block doesn't recognize anything above 128x128 as a sculptie even thought it will function if placed in the sculptie window (actually any texture can be placed into the window.)
...and...
Quote:
It is recommended to use 64x64 images (32x32 textures are not officially supported for sculpted prim use and may give unexpected results).
Did you actually read this page at all?!?

Last edited by bcRIPster; 30th March 2009 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 31st March 2009, 05:19 AM   #3
SebastianG63
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Thumbs down Re: Request: Export-Plugin / SL Sculpties resolution greater than 64x64

Well, I am asking myself why textures of 128x128 or 256x256 rsolution produce so much better results when uploaded compared to 64x64 resolution bitmaps.

So I ask you instead: Did you ever even try SL-Sculpties? Because from your explanation everything should be fine at 64x64, but it's definatly not!

If you do not believe me, try "scupltypaint" yourself at different resolutions and spend some Linden$ for uploading them and you will find out what higher resolutions will do to Sculpted Prims at SL!
This is why there is a demand for higher resolution generated by the plugin!

Really, if you are not aware of anything related to this topic in real world scenario at SL, you better might not answer this thread.

With a few of my best wishes...
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Old 31st March 2009, 03:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Request: Export-Plugin / SL Sculpties resolution greater than 64x64

For me, even with lossless compression, higher resolutions help (especially with smoothing edges).


I agree with the request, as it does seem to help!
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Old 2nd April 2009, 04:56 PM   #5
bcRIPster
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Default Re: Request: Export-Plugin / SL Sculpties resolution greater than 64x64

Well, SebastianG63, let me be blunt. You are misinterpreting your results.The facts of the matter are If you are uploading an image larger than 64x64 pixels and see that it looks better, it is nothing more than as a result of the image scaling process of size reduction done by SL when you upload the file and the system converts it for storage (essentially you're getting an anti-aliasing benefit).

If you create your 64x64 textures appropriately before uploading them to SL they should always look better because there is no scaling happening when the file is uploaded. For instance here are three sample images.

1) A 256x256 image the square and circle are squiggled (created to dramatically emphasize my point).



2) When I reduced it to 64x64 as the SL client would, it's a miracle, the box and circle now are clean lines and look better! The scaling has smoothed the edges just as expected.



3) But! If I craft the image at 64x64, taking pains to create my lines precisely, it looks even cleaner.



So, in reply to your last snarky sentence, I would suggest that until you learn about how real world image processing works (or even image processing for SL content) you might want to consider not coming into these forums and making demands when you don't know what you're talking about.

There are plenty of people here that are wonderfully helpful and patient in explaining things, but not when you come in on the attack.

Last edited by bcRIPster; 2nd April 2009 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 2nd April 2009, 05:26 PM   #6
lisa
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Default Re: Request: Export-Plugin / SL Sculpties resolution greater than 64x64

Feature request noted. (I know I've been taking waaaay too long to update this, I apolgize. My work schedule has been hell, and there've been more bugs that expected. I do assure everyone it is being worked on. Please bear with and understand, this is fan-created effort. I did just get a couple of the other plugins people were looking for released though! Bit by bit, yes? )

There's two reasons higher resolution help, but they have nothing to do with compression:

a) Sculpted prim geometry is 33x33 instead of 32x32, even though the textures must be square powers of two. Aaargh. Go into wireframe mode off the debug menu and count the vertices, you'll see what I mean. I'd consider this a bug, and several people have submitted it to the JIRA already, but it keeps getting closed as "by design". (I can discuss more details of why this is so, and why I *still* think its a bug anyway, and how I would fix it if anyone cares, but honestly it is what it is, so well... work with what you got, right? Its their perogative to make the viewer however they like.)

This is also why you sometimes get a "gap" on planar mode models with smaller textures. Try putting a 32x32 on a plane, set it to planar. It *should* be perfect, but it's not, even if you individually paint each pixel in photoshop. You'll end up with a missing row of vertices.

When you use larger sizes, the gap gets filled in on scaling and you get a better match to the vertices. This same effect effectively alters the "alignment" (can't think what else to call it) between the sculpt map and the geometry.

b) The textures are only 8-bit per channel. This is what causes the stair-stepping effect. The real fix for this would be for LL to allow 32-bit per channel or floating-point textures (HDRI TIF, for example). If textures were floating point, you'd never have lumps. Scaling helps because it restores some--but not all--of the in-between values.

Scaling doesn't: a) fix compression artifacts or b) add more vertices. LL recommends 64x64 which is why it was done that way in the first place. I'm planning to add resolution control when I get the next version out.
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Old 13th April 2009, 12:45 AM   #7
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Default Re: Request: Export-Plugin / SL Sculpties resolution greater than 64x64

I can't wait for the update. Will it work with the version of ac3d before the latest or should we upgrade it? I just am lazy I guess about moving all my folders again.
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